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William_Steinset
William_Steinset p William Steinset
1K Post(s)
1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: December 12, 1969
Posted

A good topic to discuss in my opinion. It is not a lie that being vegan has an insane amount of health benefits and is most likely, if done correctly, the healthiest way to live. This is due to the fact that you can get all your nutrients from plants and have almost no side effects. You will most likely have to use a B12 supplement but that is very inexpencive.

 

I am a meat eater, I eat quite a lot of it actually and it is my main source of protein along side milk and egg products. However I do not eat meat every single day and I make sure to check with the doctor regularly when it comes to my cholesterol and vitamin storages.

 

I do believe one can live healthy and happy as a meat eater, but I also believe one must make an informed decision on the matter. Being vegan is a great option that not only makes you healthy but you also will no longer contribute to the suffering and death of animals.

MS Athelete / Super Hermanite / SHF
William_Steinset
William_Steinset p William Steinset
1K Post(s)
1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: December 12, 1969
Posted
Posted By: LoadingCosta

Whats up William_Steinset,

 

I appreciate you commenting on my post man, means alot. Im glad the first comment on this post was not a negative one because I know this is a touchy subject to some people in the bodybuilding community. See with me and the Vegan lifestyle it seems a if it may just be another scandal. For example a few years ago there were diets that many doctors said are healthy and the best way to live and majority of them consisted of meat but now Doctors are coming out and saying that meat today may not be the way to go and vegan lifestyle is. Like for me its really hard to believe something when everytihng constantly changes if that makes sense. I think the main problem in todays scoeity is everything within the meat industry is being processed and that is what I believe is slowely killing us quicker than what we are capable of living too.

 

Thats a good thing that you get your levels checked regulary but the doctor because I need too. Last time I had it checked I had great cholestrol levels according to the doctor and I was eating meat at the time. Still I do eat meat and I havent stopped and I dont think I ever will but my mental status towards meat is not the best if that makes sense. Like I get so worried about anything I put in my body now due to the harm it can do. No I dont believe im coming down with an eating disorder because Ill still eat whatever and never stop eating what I need to eat but I do fear sometimes eating saturated fat because I know it clogs.

 

I personally do at the same time believe that people can live a healthy lifestyle as a meat eater as well and I just dont like the idea that all these doctors are coming out and saying that meat is so bad for us now. It makes me think what took so long to figure this out when it seems so simple too me. I understand that I know Doctors probably dont say stuff like this often because they need unhealthy people to make a living and thats the sad truth.

Although new research is often very relevant it is not always the case. Today there is so much new reasearch all the time: «Eat as much sugar as you want, salt is the enemy», «new study shows that red meat is actually good for you», and so on.  I tend to stick to the basics. Most people know what is healthy and what is not and so do I. I know I have a lot more knowledge about nutrition and training than the avarage Joe, however it is not rocket science to seperate bad calories from good.

 

As you say what the research says constantly changes. So be more critical, where is the research coming from ? Who are the subjects ? Is it representative enough ? Does the correlation make any sense ? For instance if they are doing a study on sugar and use people who are diabetic, it becomes very hard to trust the study.

MS Athelete / Super Hermanite / SHF
M_Levesque
M_Levesque g Michelle Levesque
113 Post(s)
113 Post(s) Gender: Female Goal: Lose Fat Date Joined: October 10, 2013
Posted

Its interesting that I haven't been on here in months, maybe even a year and this is the first post I see :) I just recently went vegan a few months ago. No meat, no dairy, no eggs..nothing. I began watching the documentaries on netflix: What the Health, Vegucated, In defense of food, Food, Inc, Forks over Knives to name a few. There are a ton of studies out there, well backed studies too, that show animal protein is linked to diabetes, that it is the cause, not the sugar. Sugar contributes, but doesn't cause diabetes. Professor Colin Campbell is one of the leading researchers for whole plant based diets and is featured in many of these documentaries. The China Study is one of his most famous studies and books and worth looking into. Countries who have some of the most animal protein consumption also have the highest rates of cancer in the world. Its no secret that Okinawans live longer than any one else, or at least they used to when they ate mostly plant based diets. It's also no secret how switching to a vegan diet has cured many cancers and many metabolic diseases.

 

Ask yourself, why is it we eat meat? for survival? because it tastes good? because culturally we are told to? Try to answer these questions honestly and see what you come up with. Do I miss meat? not really. It smells good when people are cooking it around me don't get me wrong. But I don't miss the taste at all. There are plenty of other good tasting foods out there that don't contain animal products.

 

Love that you started this conversation though!! I don't push the veganism on anyone...in fact I hate teling people I'm vegan...I just tell them I eat whole plant based diet...and let them make their own judgements.

Working to inspire others while staying as fit as possible! Instagram: Eat_Lift_Inspire Twitter: Eatliftinspire
Scott_Herman
Scott_Herman a Scott Herman
7.1K Post(s)
7.1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: August 8, 2008
Posted
Posted By: LoadingCosta

Hey everyone, 

  By the title you are probably already thinking great this is a vegan pushing his beliefs on everyone but its the opposite. I actually just wanted everyone's view on either side honestly. Before I get to the question I did want to explain why I started thinking about this. Ever since I found Scott and Youtube and started learning from him and how to do the meal plans I really ended up intrigued in this lifestyle and never wanted to give it up. I been doing this for about two years now. Some meals of mine contain pork chops and other times it contains chicken. Each one of my meals contain black beans, rice, and vegetables. I usually get my fat for the day by either walnuts or almonds from BJ's. I've always been a meat eater and I love meat do not get me wrong and I do noy believe I can ever go vegan but I did want to ask the health benefits of being a vegan. 

The reason I am bringing this up is for about two months now I been coming down with random chest pains and squeezing pains that really alarmed me because at first I am a 23 year old male turning 24 and I thought I was having a heart attack at such a young age. Turns out the hospital visit showed that I was not having a heart attack. My EKG and blood test showed everything was normal but ever since then I have been so scared and I am not going to lie about that. I had to set up an appointment with my cardioglist after that indicent and he wanted to run and echocardiogram on my heart to just make sure. Turns out everything was normal and he advised me to not be concerned but he did tell me that to this date majority of all cardioglist world wide believe in the vegan lifestyle and always advise there patients to go vegan to help minimize or almost prevent heart disease in general. Ever since then I have been researching and looking into this and I am so nervous that since I am a meat eater I may be slowely clogging my artieres more and more. I know this sounds crazy but this is how I been thinking due to my health scare. I did come across a gastro doctor that did want to do an endoscope test on me which he found I had gastritis. The reason why I am posting this is because I am looking for some knowledge from anyone honestly who has a great deal on this subject. I thought once I started working out and really taking care of my body that I was almost immune to diseases at such a young age but now I am starting to think otherwise and I am kinda scared honestly and I am sorry if that sounds pathetic. 

I appreciate it if anyone has read all of this!!! Really do. 

Looks like a good, healthy debate about the pros of veganism but also taking into account both sides of the scale.

 

Personally, I'm not vegan, and not sure I could ever go vegan, but like everyone else agree it has some awesome health benefits. My friend Kostas has actually gone vegan this year and speaks pretty highly of it, and I was taking to VeganGains earlier this year so learnt a little more about it then as well. Definitely nothing wrong with it and I can understand why people choose that lifestyle.

 

The only thing I want to make sure people know about when it coems to veganism and muscle building/fat loss in particular is still getting complete proteins. It's fairly easy to get from meat, dairy, eggs etc., but if you're only using vegetables then you need to make sure you get that variety in, in order to still get complete proteins.

 

Also, I think it's harsh to say meat is to blame for diabetes and other heart issues (I know no-one here in this @forum is saying it, but some 'professionals' will try to say it). Diseases like diabetes and obesity have really taken off over the past probably 50-100 years, and at the end of the day, we've been eating meat products for a lot longer than that. I don't think those kinds of diseases can be linked to any single food source.. it's a mix of a lot of bad things, sometimes genetics (in terms of diabetes), TOO MUCH food in general, and sedentary lifestyles.

 

There are plenty of people who are healthy and arent' vegan, and there are plenty of people who are healthy and are vegan, so I'd say it's fine either way 😊 

Need 1 on 1 coaching? Send me a direct message to learn more!
M_Levesque
M_Levesque g Michelle Levesque
113 Post(s)
113 Post(s) Gender: Female Goal: Lose Fat Date Joined: October 10, 2013
Posted

Scott while there is truth to the fact that as a society we've been eating meat for a long time, the rate of childhood type II diabetes did not exist in the 80s as it did now. In fact, there is fact proven statistics and evidence (i can even find it and link it here later, I'm working on homework at the moment lol) that says the number of childhood type II diabetes has increased by over 50k since 1980....now...yes sedentary lifestyles plays a HUGE role in this. But sugars, the chemicals that goes INTO these animal proteins, and the fact that the industries themselves are pushing a diet that consists more of meat and dairy and less fruits and vegetables is insane. Not to mention, and here is where every bodybuilder will have my head....you ready for this...the human body actually doesn't need a gram of protein per pound of lean mass OR body weight to put on muscle. it's actually scientifically proven. There are cross fit athletes, and bodybuilders...ie meredith burns, dana linn bailey who is now pescatarian but her husband is vegan and hes HUGE and others in the industry, who are vegan and put on just as much muscle getting the required 60 grams or so of protein the body needs. again, don't believe me? do your own research. I'm not going to link a bunch of articles here to force a belief on anyone. it's better for people to do the research, look up Dr. Milton Mills, Collin Campbell, Dr. Greger just to name a few...and see what you find. Compare and contrast what you know, and make your own decisions. :)

Working to inspire others while staying as fit as possible! Instagram: Eat_Lift_Inspire Twitter: Eatliftinspire
M_Levesque
M_Levesque g Michelle Levesque
113 Post(s)
113 Post(s) Gender: Female Goal: Lose Fat Date Joined: October 10, 2013
Posted
Posted By: LoadingCosta

Whats up M_Levesque,

 

Well that is pretty funny that your first time on this website in a few months you see this post but heck maybe thats not a bad thing haha. I'm not going to lie when I say this but when I thought of people being vegan I kinda thought it was nonsense and I blame that on myself honestly. These feelings arouse from the youtube guy called VeganGains. I used to see his videos and see how harmful he was with his words and it really bothered me. He kinda came off as the guy who was like its my way or the high way and I just do not like that attitude honestly.

 

If you do not mind me asking this but what documentaries are out there that show a vegan diet can help cure cancer or any metabolic diseases or any studies out there. I would be really intrigued to read or watch studies on that. I just dont like biased studies or videos if that makes sense. Thats why I post this forum because I did not want bias on either side honestly. I'm just a bit intrigued by the vegan lifestyle and want to learn more about it.

 

Me personally I am not sure if I can "fully" give up the meat but red meat I can give up no problem if that makes sense. Like chicken would be hard to give up competely cause its a staple in my meal plan. I also have egg whites and I am not sure what is considered bad diary when it comes to being a vegan. I was mainly considering going vegan but still keeping some white chicken in my meals if that makes sense. Basically 90% vegan and the rest white chicken meat. Im not sure if that is a no go or not when it comes to the vegan movement.

Food Choices*
Vegucated
Food, INC
Forks over Knives*
Hungry for change
Fed Up
What the Health*
In Defense of Food
PlantPure Nation

 

Here are the documentaries. Ignore the asterisk. Those are just the ones I’ve watched already. I agree there are a ton of douches out there that make vegan diets sound terrible.

 

As as far as dairy goes, all dairy is bad. Milk is made with pus and chemicals, same with cheese. Watch the documentaries and see what they say about chicken...you might have some new thoughts on it afterwards

Working to inspire others while staying as fit as possible! Instagram: Eat_Lift_Inspire Twitter: Eatliftinspire
SavvvyD
SavvvyD g Savvvy D
54 Post(s)
54 Post(s) Gender: Female Goal: Gain Muscle Date Joined: July 7, 2014
Posted

Eeeeew :( I wish I didn’t read the pus in milk part. So grossed out now and I have three bags in the fridge i just bought.

Scott_Herman
Scott_Herman a Scott Herman
7.1K Post(s)
7.1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: August 8, 2008
Posted
Posted By: M_Levesque

Scott while there is truth to the fact that as a society we've been eating meat for a long time, the rate of childhood type II diabetes did not exist in the 80s as it did now. In fact, there is fact proven statistics and evidence (i can even find it and link it here later, I'm working on homework at the moment lol) that says the number of childhood type II diabetes has increased by over 50k since 1980....now...yes sedentary lifestyles plays a HUGE role in this. But sugars, the chemicals that goes INTO these animal proteins, and the fact that the industries themselves are pushing a diet that consists more of meat and dairy and less fruits and vegetables is insane. Not to mention, and here is where every bodybuilder will have my head....you ready for this...the human body actually doesn't need a gram of protein per pound of lean mass OR body weight to put on muscle. it's actually scientifically proven. There are cross fit athletes, and bodybuilders...ie meredith burns, dana linn bailey who is now pescatarian but her husband is vegan and hes HUGE and others in the industry, who are vegan and put on just as much muscle getting the required 60 grams or so of protein the body needs. again, don't believe me? do your own research. I'm not going to link a bunch of articles here to force a belief on anyone. it's better for people to do the research, look up Dr. Milton Mills, Collin Campbell, Dr. Greger just to name a few...and see what you find. Compare and contrast what you know, and make your own decisions. :)

But again.. before the 80s kids were eating meat no problem. Like I say.. you can't put the blame on one thing in particular. There are definitely some processed things to stay away from agreed, and various added bits and pieces to various foods definitely don't do much good for anyone. I definitely support a diet filled with fruits and veges as well.

 

The only thing I will say about the people you mentioned (e.g. Dana Linn Bailey) is this.. she is an IFBB pro.. I believe she won the Olympia a few years back? And unfortunately to be at that level, I highly doubt she is natural. Would she have a great physique anyway while being pescatarian/vegan without some added help? I'm sure she would.. but, again, unfortunately, when you see some (not all, some) of these vegan fitness industry icons, what they have simply isn't achievable naturally and that's where some misconceptions come into play.

 

But ever since having more contact with friends who are vegan I have been doing more research into it and learning more about it, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so 😊 

Need 1 on 1 coaching? Send me a direct message to learn more!
jmboiardi
jmboiardi p John M Boiardi
2.6K Post(s)
2.6K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: October 10, 2013
Posted

This is a topic I personally do a lot of research on and have formulated my own opinions as I believe you should take ownership of your health and nutrition - take it for what it's worth. When it comes to "the right diet" for health, there tends to be too many extremes. In my view, the human body needs a diverse and balanced diet from wholesome, natural foods. While that is a broad statement, it encompasses the middle ground of all these extremes. Humans are omnivores. Period. Every "extreme" diet has some level of deficiencies. A pure vegan diet is severly lacking in vitamin B12 and Omega-3 fatty acids DHA and EPA. I am not referring to ALA from nuts which the body has to convert to DHA and EPA via a very inefficient process. Paleo eliminates some essential minerals and the preferred usage of glucose for fuel and is too restricitve in my opinion. High carb/no fat diets eliminate a key macro-nutrient in healthy fats.

 

At the end of the day, the body needs balance. The issue is that the food supply of today is vastly different than the food supply of 50-100 years ago. Meat is highly processed and full of hormones and chemicals, vegetables and fruits are full of pesticides, grains are GMO and exposed to deadly Round-Up pesticide, fish is farmed, and dairy is full of hormones and antibiotics. All these studies that expound the virtues of one method of eating and villify another are ALL victims of bias. They are ALL funded or supported in some way by the respective group or government agency with a vested interest in pushing a certain agenda. For all the studies on people who are purely Vegan living the longest, there are an equal number of people who eat just meat and fat (Eskimoes, Mesai Tribe, etc) that live just as long. The movies on Netflix like "What the Health", etc overhype many of the perceived dangers of certain eating styles to push a alterior agenda - in this case prevention of animal cruelty. The producers of that film are staunch animal rights activists.

 

Our bodies learned to adapt over millions of years to all types of food sources to survive. We can process dairy, meat, vegetables, fruits, grains, nuts, seeds, insects, and fish. There are certain situations where dairy (lactose intolerance) or gluten (Celiac disease) preclude the eating of certain food groups but to make a general statement that dairy and gluten are bad for us is just irresponsible. The continual debate over saturated fat and cholesterol causing heart disease is paid for by the pharmaceutical industry protecting its 30 Billion/year Statin business. We now know that this assertion is incorrect yet it is still propagated in the media. The government and associated "health" groups like the AMA, AHA, ACS, etc are the WORST people to get unbiased nutritional advice from as they are all influenced by money. The intent is honorable but the old adage "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" plays here. The food industry is worse and they use these "expert" studies to influence our purchasing decisions. The whole anti-fat and cholesterol dogma has lead to the highest levels of obesity, Type 2 diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and dementia rates in the history of man. Now everyone is anti-gluten or anti-dairy which is bullshit unless you have Celiac disease or lactose intolerance. We have a deluge of unhealthy vegetable oils (corn, soy, safflower, sunflower) and high fructose corn syrup as a sweetner in our food and drinks because we produce more corn, wheat, and soy than any other country and it is heavily subsidized by the government to make it very cheap to use. There is no concern for the dire health consequences these "products' produce but rather only pure profit. However, healthy oils like coconut and olive oil are either villified (coconut) or not pushed as much in the U.S. (olive oil) because no money is made for our food industry in doing so.

 

The main cause of all the chronic diseases we now face in epidemic proportions is NOT due to any of the food we eat but rather the QUALITY of the food we eat. Our food supply is devoid of nutrients and lacks all the essential vitamins and minerals we need to survive as it is now heavily processed to save money. Cancer is not a disease but rather a symptom of malnutrition at the micro-nutrient level. A controversial statement, yes, but in the 40+ years since Nixon declared a war on cancer and we have spent billions of dollars on research we still have no cure. You can't cure something unless you address the root cause and the root cause is the food we eat and the environment we live in. The only true genetic source of cancer is childhood cancer. The majority of adult cancers are due to poor food quality and environmental factors. You can choose to believe this or not but years of research and billions of dollars spent don't lie - cancer is a business and a lucrative one at that. The cancer researchers of today have great intent and are truly committed to their mission. It is true cancer is a very complicated process with many factors based on the individuality of our own bodies. However, the cancer answer is like asking "what time is it?". Instead of giving the time, they are explaining how the watch works. Sometimes the most complex of things can be simply explained. As Einstein once said "Everything should be made as simple as possible, not simpler".

 

At the end of the day, find an eating pattern that meets your individual needs, incorporates healthy, non-processed foods, makes you feel good, and is something you can stick to everyday. However, don't be blinded to think that your particular way to eat is the be-all-to-end-all. Long healthy living involves many other things in conjunction with a healty diet like exercise and stress-reduction.

 

John

34 years of lifting and nutritional experience and resident "old man" :-) MS Athlete and past Super Hermanite since 2013.
M_Levesque
M_Levesque g Michelle Levesque
113 Post(s)
113 Post(s) Gender: Female Goal: Lose Fat Date Joined: October 10, 2013
Posted
Posted By: Scott_Herman

But again.. before the 80s kids were eating meat no problem. Like I say.. you can't put the blame on one thing in particular. There are definitely some processed things to stay away from agreed, and various added bits and pieces to various foods definitely don't do much good for anyone. I definitely support a diet filled with fruits and veges as well.

 

The only thing I will say about the people you mentioned (e.g. Dana Linn Bailey) is this.. she is an IFBB pro.. I believe she won the Olympia a few years back? And unfortunately to be at that level, I highly doubt she is natural. Would she have a great physique anyway while being pescatarian/vegan without some added help? I'm sure she would.. but, again, unfortunately, when you see some (not all, some) of these vegan fitness industry icons, what they have simply isn't achievable naturally and that's where some misconceptions come into play.

 

But ever since having more contact with friends who are vegan I have been doing more research into it and learning more about it, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so 😊 

LOL, buddy, first of all, Dana was def not vegan or pescatarian when she won Ms. Olympia. she only recently made the diet switch. She has since stopped competing in bodybuilding. She as moved on to powerlifting and has been doing that since making the diet shift. Also, she has posted youtube videos of her blood work to prove she doesn't use steriods. Now, thats not to say when she competed she didn't use other forms of assistance. Please tell me you do know there are things such as SARMS and peptides which are legal and in no way close to things like Deca and Clen....If we follow the industry like we say we do, then we know there are other substances that can enhance muscle building in the same fashion as anabolic steriods but are legal substances. Dana hasn't been sponsored in a loooong time for many reasons. You have people out there (or had) like Piana who straight up juiced til the day he died and still sold supplements making kids believe that those supplements made him big. THATS a misconception...

 

But I digress. I think the real problem with the vegan discussion is like the OP said, there are far too many people who push the agenda on others instead of letting people make their own choices. My husband still eats meat, I even cook it for him. We buy leather products...We do it for the health factors inside our bodies.

Working to inspire others while staying as fit as possible! Instagram: Eat_Lift_Inspire Twitter: Eatliftinspire
M_Levesque
M_Levesque g Michelle Levesque
113 Post(s)
113 Post(s) Gender: Female Goal: Lose Fat Date Joined: October 10, 2013
Posted
Posted By: jmboiardi

This is a topic I personally do a lot of research on and have formulated my own opinions as I believe you should take ownership of your health and nutrition - take it for what it's worth. When it comes to "the right diet" for health, there tends to be too many extremes. In my view, the human body needs a diverse and balanced diet from wholesome, natural foods. While that is a broad statement, it encompasses the middle ground of all these extremes. Humans are omnivores. Period. Every "extreme" diet has some level of deficiencies. A pure vegan diet is severly lacking in vitamin B12 and Omega-3 fatty acids DHA and EPA. I am not referring to ALA from nuts which the body has to convert to DHA and EPA via a very inefficient process. Paleo eliminates some essential minerals and the preferred usage of glucose for fuel and is too restricitve in my opinion. High carb/no fat diets eliminate a key macro-nutrient in healthy fats.

 

At the end of the day, the body needs balance. The issue is that the food supply of today is vastly different than the food supply of 50-100 years ago. Meat is highly processed and full of hormones and chemicals, vegetables and fruits are full of pesticides, grains are GMO and exposed to deadly Round-Up pesticide, fish is farmed, and dairy is full of hormones and antibiotics. All these studies that expound the virtues of one method of eating and villify another are ALL victims of bias. They are ALL funded or supported in some way by the respective group or government agency with a vested interest in pushing a certain agenda. For all the studies on people who are purely Vegan living the longest, there are an equal number of people who eat just meat and fat (Eskimoes, Mesai Tribe, etc) that live just as long. The movies on Netflix like "What the Health", etc overhype many of the perceived dangers of certain eating styles to push a alterior agenda - in this case prevention of animal cruelty. The producers of that film are staunch animal rights activists.

 

Our bodies learned to adapt over millions of years to all types of food sources to survive. We can process dairy, meat, vegetables, fruits, grains, nuts, seeds, insects, and fish. There are certain situations where dairy (lactose intolerance) or gluten (Celiac disease) preclude the eating of certain food groups but to make a general statement that dairy and gluten are bad for us is just irresponsible. The continual debate over saturated fat and cholesterol causing heart disease is paid for by the pharmaceutical industry protecting its 30 Billion/year Statin business. We now know that this assertion is incorrect yet it is still propagated in the media. The government and associated "health" groups like the AMA, AHA, ACS, etc are the WORST people to get unbiased nutritional advice from as they are all influenced by money. The intent is honorable but the old adage "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" plays here. The food industry is worse and they use these "expert" studies to influence our purchasing decisions. The whole anti-fat and cholesterol dogma has lead to the highest levels of obesity, Type 2 diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and dementia rates in the history of man. Now everyone is anti-gluten or anti-dairy which is bullshit unless you have Celiac disease or lactose intolerance. We have a deluge of unhealthy vegetable oils (corn, soy, safflower, sunflower) and high fructose corn syrup as a sweetner in our food and drinks because we produce more corn, wheat, and soy than any other country and it is heavily subsidized by the government to make it very cheap to use. There is no concern for the dire health consequences these "products' produce but rather only pure profit. However, healthy oils like coconut and olive oil are either villified (coconut) or not pushed as much in the U.S. (olive oil) because no money is made for our food industry in doing so.

 

The main cause of all the chronic diseases we now face in epidemic proportions is NOT due to any of the food we eat but rather the QUALITY of the food we eat. Our food supply is devoid of nutrients and lacks all the essential vitamins and minerals we need to survive as it is now heavily processed to save money. Cancer is not a disease but rather a symptom of malnutrition at the micro-nutrient level. A controversial statement, yes, but in the 40+ years since Nixon declared a war on cancer and we have spent billions of dollars on research we still have no cure. You can't cure something unless you address the root cause and the root cause is the food we eat and the environment we live in. The only true genetic source of cancer is childhood cancer. The majority of adult cancers are due to poor food quality and environmental factors. You can choose to believe this or not but years of research and billions of dollars spent don't lie - cancer is a business and a lucrative one at that. The cancer researchers of today have great intent and are truly committed to their mission. It is true cancer is a very complicated process with many factors based on the individuality of our own bodies. However, the cancer answer is like asking "what time is it?". Instead of giving the time, they are explaining how the watch works. Sometimes the most complex of things can be simply explained. As Einstein once said "Everything should be made as simple as possible, not simpler".

 

At the end of the day, find an eating pattern that meets your individual needs, incorporates healthy, non-processed foods, makes you feel good, and is something you can stick to everyday. However, don't be blinded to think that your particular way to eat is the be-all-to-end-all. Long healthy living involves many other things in conjunction with a healty diet like exercise and stress-reduction.

 

John

I'd like to pose a question...where do you think a lactose allergy and gluten allergy came from? why are we the ONLY mammals who drink milk AFTER 1 year of birth? the milk we drink increase IGF-1...insulin-like growth factor....which, among other things, can increase the growth of cells to include cancer cells. I could go into a long winded post about milk and the dairy industry. and I'm sure we could post both research for and against but at the end of the day....the research I have found is that we don't need milk, at all. not for calcium, not for our bones, in fact, there is a study (if you REALLY need I'll find it for you) that found increase milk consumption actually caused MORE osteoporosis in individuals.

Working to inspire others while staying as fit as possible! Instagram: Eat_Lift_Inspire Twitter: Eatliftinspire
Scott_Herman
Scott_Herman a Scott Herman
7.1K Post(s)
7.1K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: August 8, 2008
Posted
Posted By: M_Levesque

LOL, buddy, first of all, Dana was def not vegan or pescatarian when she won Ms. Olympia. she only recently made the diet switch. She has since stopped competing in bodybuilding. She as moved on to powerlifting and has been doing that since making the diet shift. Also, she has posted youtube videos of her blood work to prove she doesn't use steriods. Now, thats not to say when she competed she didn't use other forms of assistance. Please tell me you do know there are things such as SARMS and peptides which are legal and in no way close to things like Deca and Clen....If we follow the industry like we say we do, then we know there are other substances that can enhance muscle building in the same fashion as anabolic steriods but are legal substances. Dana hasn't been sponsored in a loooong time for many reasons. You have people out there (or had) like Piana who straight up juiced til the day he died and still sold supplements making kids believe that those supplements made him big. THATS a misconception...

 

But I digress. I think the real problem with the vegan discussion is like the OP said, there are far too many people who push the agenda on others instead of letting people make their own choices. My husband still eats meat, I even cook it for him. We buy leather products...We do it for the health factors inside our bodies.

My buddy Kostas AKA @whisper is staying with me for the week from Greece and he is Vegan. Last night we ate at Fire & Ice in Boston, side by side, no judgements. 💪  and I agree that is how it should be!

 

I will be doing a video on SARMS soon. They are not as innocent as you might think. Even the bottle says "Not for human consumption" for a reason. Make sure to look out for it when I release it. Whenever I cover a video on these types of drugs I make them unbiased. I just deliver the facts like in my Tren and Clen videos.

 

Also, even though Dana takes drugs to look the way she does, I'm not saying it coming from a bad place. It still takes a lot of hard work and dedication to build that kind of physique. It is not easy at all and I admire her dedication just as I did for Arnold back in the day. But when someone releases a "blood test" or a "hair sample" test like Simeon Panda (who is the same size as Arnold in his prime) and claims "natty".. something is wrong. I have seen you make AMAZING gains over the years @M_Levesque and on a personal level I just don't like it when someone like you who is truely natural is compared to someone who claims to be who isn't. It's more about just being honest and if she doesnt have any sponsors she should just be honest about what she has taken or not say anything at all on the subject.

 

It might not seem like a big deal to you, but I deal with talking to kids all the time trying to help mend their shattered self image because some fake natty YouTuber gave them shitty advice to "make gains' and no matter how hard they try it seems like they can never reach their goals.

 

Anyways, glad to see you crushing it on the site. I love talking about topics like this and debating is fun! Keep crushing it!!

 

 

Need 1 on 1 coaching? Send me a direct message to learn more!
M_Levesque
M_Levesque g Michelle Levesque
113 Post(s)
113 Post(s) Gender: Female Goal: Lose Fat Date Joined: October 10, 2013
Posted
Posted By: Scott_Herman

My buddy Kostas AKA @whisper is staying with me for the week from Greece and he is Vegan. Last night we ate at Fire & Ice in Boston, side by side, no judgements. 💪  and I agree that is how it should be!

 

I will be doing a video on SARMS soon. They are not as innocent as you might think. Even the bottle says "Not for human consumption" for a reason. Make sure to look out for it when I release it. Whenever I cover a video on these types of drugs I make them unbiased. I just deliver the facts like in my Tren and Clen videos.

 

Also, even though Dana takes drugs to look the way she does, I'm not saying it coming from a bad place. It still takes a lot of hard work and dedication to build that kind of physique. It is not easy at all and I admire her dedication just as I did for Arnold back in the day. But when someone releases a "blood test" or a "hair sample" test like Simeon Panda (who is the same size as Arnold in his prime) and claims "natty".. something is wrong. I have seen you make AMAZING gains over the years @M_Levesque and on a personal level I just don't like it when someone like you who is truely natural is compared to someone who claims to be who isn't. It's more about just being honest and if she doesnt have any sponsors she should just be honest about what she has taken or not say anything at all on the subject.

 

It might not seem like a big deal to you, but I deal with talking to kids all the time trying to help mend their shattered self image because some fake natty YouTuber gave them shitty advice to "make gains' and no matter how hard they try it seems like they can never reach their goals.

 

Anyways, glad to see you crushing it on the site. I love talking about topics like this and debating is fun! Keep crushing it!!

 

 

ooohhh trust me buddy, I don't think SARMS are all that innocent either...my buddy in salem, the one who passed away recently from cancer, you may have known him or heard of him, Brendon, pretty sure he contributed to his cancer from either steriod, peptides or SARMS of some kind. I know he admitted to doing some stuff back in the day and believes it contributed to at least his liver cancer back then. It's unfortunate.

 

That's what I love about your videos, you give the facts to a lot of these kids who have NO idea where to go or what to do with the information that's out there. Most would have to be naive to think that many bodybuilders out there are all natural. My ex-husband used steriods through most of our  marriage and trust me...it wasn's pretty...so I know how it can affect the personality of a person when they use them.

 

I love these debates too, espeically when we can have a great conversation about opposing view points and still have fun with it! Most of the time I completely agree with everyone, but someone has to pose the opposing view, otherwise we don't end up with a debate we all end up just agreeing and then we don't have a healthy argument! ha!

 

I eat all the time around people at work who aren't vegan and like I said, I actually avoid telling them I'm vegan because then judgements come out. I just usually say I don't eat meat, dairy or sugars....usually sugars lol. Oreos are vegan so there's my downfall HAHAHA. I just like to give people information and let them decide. Like you said, people can be healthy and still eat meat and all...so to each their own right :)

 

Thanks for the support brother. I've kinda slipped in a lot of areas the last few months gains and gym wise but, now I plan on putting this vegan shit to the test and seeing how it works out. What better time to start than after slacking in the gym and getting out of shape right!

Working to inspire others while staying as fit as possible! Instagram: Eat_Lift_Inspire Twitter: Eatliftinspire
jmboiardi
jmboiardi p John M Boiardi
2.6K Post(s)
2.6K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: October 10, 2013
Posted
Posted By: M_Levesque

I'd like to pose a question...where do you think a lactose allergy and gluten allergy came from? why are we the ONLY mammals who drink milk AFTER 1 year of birth? the milk we drink increase IGF-1...insulin-like growth factor....which, among other things, can increase the growth of cells to include cancer cells. I could go into a long winded post about milk and the dairy industry. and I'm sure we could post both research for and against but at the end of the day....the research I have found is that we don't need milk, at all. not for calcium, not for our bones, in fact, there is a study (if you REALLY need I'll find it for you) that found increase milk consumption actually caused MORE osteoporosis in individuals.

Those who have lactose intolerance come from generations not exposed to or used to consuming milk from cows. This is why most ethnic Chinese and Asian populations carry the gene for intolerance but most Western Europeans do not. Our genes adapt to the food we eat over time. Just like Celiac disease is most prevelant in generations who were not big wheat eaters.

 

As for IGF-1, it is a necessary hormone for ALL cells to grow in the body including cancer. Cancer cells are not different from normal cells as to what hormones and processes stimulate growth. The only difference between a cancer cell and a normal cell is the Warberg Principle - cancer cells only use glucose and at very high rates for growth. Normal cells can use either fats or glucose to support cell life and growth. This is why highly processed diets loaded with added sugars increase the risk for all forms of cancer and keto-genic diets starve cancer cells. Of course milk has a high amount of IGF-1 because it is food to feed a growing calf. A healthy body expends these excess hormones when they are at normal levels in the milk. The main issue is today's dairy is overloaded with ALL hormones due to the use of exogenous bovine hormones and feeding them grain versus their normal diet of grass. Pure grass fed milk does not have the ill effects you read about because these studies target the industrialized dairy industry not the local farmed dairy. It is scare tactics pushed by the animal rights activists. I am not saying they are wrong and I am not saying the industrialized dairy industry is not cruel to animals. What I am saying is don't take all the ill-health claims at face value because that is not the prime agenda.

 

The studies you refer to have been financied by anti-dairy organizations and groups. Humans have been consuming milk for hundreds of thousands of years. It provides easily digested and absorbed proteins, necessary fats, and lactose sugar. The choice to consume dairy or not is a personal one. To generalize that all dairy is bad and use biased studies to support your claims is part of the issue I have with all these "extremists" on all sides saying their way of eating is the only way to eat. That includes Vegans, Carnivores, Paleos, etc. Your body will tell you what works for you. Some people respond better to pure Veganism and some don't. Some can consume dairy and some can't. There are plenty of Vegans who die of heart disease due to the high Omega-6 and low Omega-3 fats in their diet and have anemia issues due to the lack of B12. You don't hear about them because nobody talks about it - only the ill-health affects of the diet they don't support. We are OMNIVORES and meant to eat a balanced diet from all sources in moderation and without industrialization. We don't have any of this today - we eat too much of non-nutritional, highly processed foods and drinks.

 

John

34 years of lifting and nutritional experience and resident "old man" :-) MS Athlete and past Super Hermanite since 2013.
jmboiardi
jmboiardi p John M Boiardi
2.6K Post(s)
2.6K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: October 10, 2013
Posted
Posted By: LoadingCosta

Hey man!

Love it when you when you comment because your so filled with knowledge. It was just about three days that I actually started thinking about the vegan lifestyle due to many cardiologist and doctors coming out and saying that the vegan lifestyle is the best thing out there right now for preventing heart disease. Really had me thinking about this because I was worried that all the meat I was eating in my meals was going to cause me to have a heart attack due to my chest pains I have been having. Yes I know it sounds crazy. That’s exactly what I read online about the vegan lifestyle that it lacks big time in the vitamin B12 area and that vegans needs to supplement that. Like you said every diet or lifestyle has its advantages and disadvantages and some are more extreme then others. While I do agree the vegan lifestyle is a bit extreme t cannot be denied the health benefits it brings. That is not to say it’s only the way.

I am personally looking into the Mediterranean diet and sticking with that for a while. It seems like it offers a wide range of all nutritional value and it’s something I can stick too. The only issue is finding meat that is not processed. I can’t begin to tell you how freaken big the chicken breasts are in our stores. It seems like every time I go and pick some more up they get bigger and then only thing I can think about is the amount of the chemicals these industries are injecting into the meat.

See im glad you said honestly because I always felt angered with a vegan would say or even a doctor would say the vegans have an increased risk of living longer then the average meat eater. It was really overwhelming honestly and made me feel like crap because of all the hard work I was doing with my meal plans. Eating brown rice, vegetables, lean white chicken breasts, almond milk, egg whites, fruits, and nuts. Like it made it seem like my lifestyle was soon to be thought as like a death trap and I’m like what the hell you know?

Me me personally I do not eat gluten not because I think it’s bad but because I’m prone to celiac disease and I know my body can’t handle it but I’m not going to go around chanting how bad gluten is. I do agree that it seems like the food industry today is not going to ever tell us the truth but I would love to read some articles on what you stated. Not saying you lieing just interested in reading more on it especially the issue between saturated fat and heart disease.

I’ve always told my parents that I personally believe the reason why many people today are getting sick is due to the food in our country. Look at all the fast foods joint opening up and how many are one block and then go into a grocery store and see all the processed food. It would be really unwise for someone to say the good does not play a huge role in development of a lot diseases and I think you nailed it on the head.

Agreed. The Mediterranean diet is a perfect example. It incorporates ALL food groups. The difference is they eat in moderation and do not eat processed foods and they eat fish and chicken and occassionally meat. Don't get me wrong, your meal plan should have copious amounts of vegetables of all types and whole fruits and their health benefits are undesputed. Another example is the "French Paradox". The French eat the highest diet in fats (saturated and others) yet have the lowest incidence of heart disease in all of Europe. Vegans can't explain this and neither can many cardiologists who believe the Ancel Keyes sourced bullshit about saturated fat and cholesterol and heart disease. More enlightened doctors and cardiologists know it is not the fat you eat per se but the SOURCE of the fat and the quantity that matter - natural versus man-made. Our processed food is chock full of man-made sugars and fats which have no nutritional value and are deadly to our metabolisms.

 

Most of the fat people eat of all types is not in its un-adulterated state but rather has been affected by the processing of the food. Hence deadly fats like trans fats, etc. When they take the fat out of food they replace it with sugar - again man-made not natural sugar - and look at the results. This is why I am a firm believer and staunch supporter of doing your own research and caring for your own health. The government and all its health groups are the worst sources of nutritional advice. Doctors in the U.S. today no longer are taught basic nutrition but they get tons of hours learning symptoms-to-drug diagnosis and matching.

 

Basic common sense and a high school level understanding of biology would also raise the bullshit meter on many of these claims from supposed "experts". Case in point, Cholesterol - a molecule so critical for life that your liver makes 70% of what you need and its a component of every cell in your body, all your hormones, and comprises 25% of your brain and nervous system (along with fat) - is suddenly this demonic particle that destroys our arteries and causes heart disease. Or Saturated fats that line your bronchial tubes, your nerves, and your digestive system as well as comprise the majority of all your hormones are now so bad for you. And people wonder why Asthma, Colitis, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Dementia, Alzheimers, low testosterone in men, and depression are all on the rise. It boggles my mind how gullable people can be......

 

John

34 years of lifting and nutritional experience and resident "old man" :-) MS Athlete and past Super Hermanite since 2013.
jmboiardi
jmboiardi p John M Boiardi
2.6K Post(s)
2.6K Post(s) Gender: Male Goal: Bodybuilding Date Joined: October 10, 2013
Posted
Posted By: M_Levesque

Food Choices*
Vegucated
Food, INC
Forks over Knives*
Hungry for change
Fed Up
What the Health*
In Defense of Food
PlantPure Nation

 

Here are the documentaries. Ignore the asterisk. Those are just the ones I’ve watched already. I agree there are a ton of douches out there that make vegan diets sound terrible.

 

As as far as dairy goes, all dairy is bad. Milk is made with pus and chemicals, same with cheese. Watch the documentaries and see what they say about chicken...you might have some new thoughts on it afterwards

I have watched every single one of these movies. Again, research the producers and financiers of each film and you will see where their bias comes from. All of them over-emphasize certain points and cherry pick pieces of the research they quote to support their claims. If you actually look at the entire studies they reference you will see that the conclusions made are not 100% accurate - correlation IS NOT causation.

 

As for dairy, again I am not a big dairy consumer, but the dairy you describe is industrialized dairy not traditional dairy. There is a destinction and your assertion that all dairy is bad is mis-guided in this context. Industrialized dairy is not optimal dairy for human consumption - it is diary of convenience and low cost. If you want to consume dairy and avoid the issues you describe, you have to get it from a local farm.

 

John

34 years of lifting and nutritional experience and resident "old man" :-) MS Athlete and past Super Hermanite since 2013.
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