Well, like the subject says I wanted to add some strength-based training to my routine (which has been 90% volume-based), and after 3 months of regular training I think I'm ready to "throw-in" some 5 x 5's on bench press (and eventually squats and deadlifts).

However, there are two factors that are keeping me from trying this :

1) I always train alone, and I actually prefer it this way so I can put 100% of my concentration on the task at hand. Maybe it's because I haven't met anybody that trains with similar intensity (yet); and unless I pay somebody (who i can trust) to spot me I don't see that changing.

2) I am 52 (as of 17 July), and am wondering IF this is "tempting" fate in terms of making me more prone to injury? So far, I've been pretty conservative and follow a lot of Scott's "Max Growth" series (super sets / drop sets for high vol and TUT), but haven't really tried to "test" my strength in any meaningful way. I have definitely progressed in terms of progressive overloading and paying attention to form but when is it advisable to add some 5 x 5's--and if training alone, how can I do this effectively??......if doing bench press for example---would I do my normal warm-up and then go to a weight closer to my max but use DB's instead of BB? On DL's or squats I suppose I have the rack to "save me" in case of failure, but as I understand it, you must choose a weight that you CAN do for 5 reps, but the last 1-2 should be a "struggle" to complete? (with longer rest periods between sets, like 2 mins rather than the 45 secs. that I normally take) What if I find that I do 2-3 sets of 5 without huge strain but the 4th & 5th set I really struggle to get all 5 reps in? (would I lower the weight from the beginning, or just when I feel I'm going to fail?)

I understand having a spotter would alleviate this issue, but this is my reality at the moment.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Harley

Hey man,

First of all, 5x5 is not a strength program. Its a mass gaining program. It doesnt put any more strength or any less size on you in comparison to 3x8. So many research has been done on this lately. Real strength programs ( which also put muscle on you, but are more focused on strength) are usually of this type : 7x3, 10x2 etc etc..

Secondly, you dont need a spotter to gain strength. Actually it is not advised. Spotters are useful in 2 situations. If you are an enhanced bodybuilder and you are trying to go beyond failure, or if you are on a powerlifting competition and you need 2 spotters in order not to die.

You want to do 5 reps. You should use a weight that enables you to do 5 clean reps, but the last rep should be hard. Not impossible, just hard. You must be certain that you can pull it off. In the scenario that you cant pull it off, if you are doing deadlifts you drop the bar, if you are doing squats you are in a safe squat rack or cage, and if you are doing bench press you should have somebody behind you at all times, just watching, not doing anything. He would only help if you are in danger. But no helping with the reps. I m sure you can ask someone to stand behind you, either a trainer or a lifter. People are friendly in the gym, someone will help you out.

Finally, when you are reaching failure with a strength lift, you are most likely not keeping proper form, which can not only cause injury, but also, it will not aid you with your goal. The CNS seems to not respond well and adapt when you train to failure. Its actually getting fried without making any true adaptations.

Kostas

Thanks for the reply Kostas. I like your idea / concept of when (and when not) to use a spotter.

So if I wanted to carry this conversation further (logically) let me ask you this : why would I WANT (or need?) to do a 5 x 5 routine INSTEAD of my normal 3 x 8's? (with my drop / super-sets) There's the obvious difference in having one additional rep with the 5 x 5 and a LOT more rest / recovery time between sets, but what would be the actual ADVANTAGE for a guy like me--if any?

I do not know my own genetics (as Scott recently did with his genome test), but I would "guess" that I am more of a "high volume, little rest, TUT + slow negatives" kind of lifter, at least that style seems to be working for me "so far".....plus, when you consider my age I also thought that having the shorter rest periods adds a cardio-type element into the training--I actually found myself staring at my stopwatch today doing my first 5 x 5's and "waiting" for 2 minutes to come up so I could do the next set!

But I appreciate your advice re : choosing an appropriate weight, and knowing that I CAN get 5 cleans reps out of it. I agree that there's nothing to be gained by squirming around, or lifting my butt off the bench on the last rep--plus it does increase the likelihood of injury--which is something I definitely want to avoid! It's been three months and so far I've managed well--other than occasional DOMS, etc..

Thanks again and regards!

HB

There is not much difference between 5x5 and 3x8. You essentially do the same amount of reps in total, but 2 things change. First, with the 3x8 you do those 25 reps with less sets, so you increase your work capacity a little bit more than with the 5x5. Secondly, with the 5x5, yes, you will do the same reps, but you will be able to handle a little bit heavier weight, so you might build a little bit more strength than with 3x8. But the differences are so small, its not even worth mentioning. In my opinion, 5x5 is as safe as 3x8 because injuries usually happen when you get tired and cant maintain good form which usually happens after 5 reps if you are lifting relatively heavy. So by doign 5x5, your sets will end before you get metabolically tired. You will just get mechanically tired which is to be expected.

Kostas

The 5x5 can be used to build strength and size at the same time from my experience. Yes, it is important to maintain the best form . 3x8s and 10x2s are the best for building strength But remember, you can build strength and size on almost any training style. Burn sets, pryamid sets, etc. Just remember to PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD on your workouts.

Excellent point Rishi. So many people only equate progressive overload with only increasing weight. While it is important to add more weight over time, they forget that increased volume, intensity, or time under tension also are forms of progressive overload to which the muscle must adapt.

John

I have been using 5x5 in my routine to build strength for around 3 months now and seen some great results! my split is upper body lower body twice a week chest and back monday legs tuesday then repeat thursday and friday. so each muscle gets trained twice a week but I only do 5x5 for the muscle group once a week the second time is hypertrophy.

So monday I do 5x5 bench and then incline dumbell and the back workout is 8-12 reps 3 sets on each exercise. then vica versa on the thursday.

The key is with strength training is to have at least a 2 min rest beteween sets where as with the 8-12 reps hypertrophy the rest should be minimal.

With regards to a spot, if you need a spot the weight is too heavy. I never use a spot because I train alone, if you know you are getting tired take a 20 sec break at he top of the rep to reset. If you can't get it on the bench don't panic just lower it on to your chest and sit up rolling it down your body.

Hope this helps.

Nils

Thanks Nils for your reply...it makes good sense to me, and if you don't mind I'd like to know your EXACT routines (exercise name, # of reps, rest times between sets) so I can try this out myself and see IF I get different / better results!

I saw you had an earlier post about your routine and did some "amendments" to it....is this routine exactly what you are referring to now? I've been so "set" in my ways for the past several months (other than change the exercise, e.g. doing standing shoulder presses in place of Arnold presses on "shoulder day"), that I'm now wondering if I might benefit from a total "re-vamp"? I've only been doing the "classic splits" (chest & triceps, Back & biceps, Shoulders & traps, Legs), usually working out 5-6 days per week, but your idea of hitting each body pat twice per week EACH week seems very logical.

If you don't mind, I'd like to know your routine so I can try it myself.....I've only followed Scott's "Max growth" routines (so for example I'd do his Max Growth chest AND Max growth triceps on one day, then his back & biceps on the next etc....) and those are ALL based on hypertrophy (usually 3 sets x 8-10 reps, with strict rest of only 45 seconds between sets), and incorporate a lot of SLOW negatives, TUT, etc..

Remember, I'm not a "young fellow" anymore (turned 52 in July), but I'm under 10% BF and run circles around most guys 20 years my junior, so the endurance / cardio aspect isn't an issue, but recovery time DEFINITELY is.....although I LOVE the feeling after the workouts, some days I wake up and just don't feel I have the stamina to put in a "full workout" so I do only cardio and maybe bodyweight exercises on that day.

Feel free to message me privately regarding your routine......I think I am ready to make a few tweaks / changes.....

Harley

Hey Man,

Yeah I'm still using the same routine, the key points to focus on are back chest and legs should be trained twice a week onve for strength and the other for hypertrophy.

don't strength train back and chest on the same day though, start with one or the other and then the opposite on the second.

On the 5x5's make sure you have at least 2mins rest between the sets.

Hope this helps.

:-)

Nils

5x5 is a great way to exercise, been doing it for a long time and just recently left it behind.

I did this kind of training for 5 months straight and incremented weights really fast and to my surprise it worked wonders.

You don't need a spotter, or rather you need to be the one to judge this. IF you feel like this, that a spotter is a must, you're lifting either way to much or your insecure about your lifting. I did all exercises alone and it went fine, actually prefer doing it alone, more focus on the lifting.

If the exercise was very heavy on you and it felt like to much, simply rest longer and always make sure to get that RM correctly.

Tip:

Something i found effective when doing a 5x5 was to take a 120-160 seconds rest, make sure to warm up long time and last but most important was to lower the weight significantly when i noticed that my RM suffered. This will also help you, you wont require a spotter for this :)

Correct me if im wrong but aren't a spotter most/only used when going outside of the comfort-zone? IE trying to break a PR or going very high?

Not necessarily @mrhoffmann.

A spotter can be there when you are doing as many as 8-15 reps too. This is to help with forced reps. You might have a weight which you can use to bust out maybe 6 or 7 reps, but that last one just seems to elude you.

Having a spotter not only means they can physically help you with that last rep, but mentally as well. Having someone there ready to help you if you need it can be great for the mind, and make you believe you can do it. Suddenly you might find that last rep is possible after all.

And even if they do have to help you slightly, you are still doing most of the work and it means you can crank out more reps, and tear the muscle even more under such stress.

That is why a spotter is always good to have. So you can always push yourself to the limits.

Jordan